FanPost

NCAA pod complaints: a March tradition

James Snook-US PRESSWIRE

On a recent bracketology thread, A Sea of Blue's Greg Alan Edwards notes that if Charlie Creme's bracketology is correct in detail, his Kentucky Wildcats will have to go to the Big Apple, where they will they could face St. Johns on the Red Storm's home turf... if the Red Storm as a projected 10 seed pull a first round upset.

This revives an annual tradition of placement complaints that arise ever since the 2003 (?) decision to predetermine the sites of the first and second round games in the NCAA tourney, instead of having all 1, 2, 3, and 4 seeds host the early rounds, and to procedurally move teams on the S curve to minimize the cost of travel. UK doesn't have the worst deal in Creme's current bracketology. Who has the worst deal depends on what you think is worse: a 1 or 2 playing on the home turf of a 7-9, or a 3 or 4 facing a 5 or 6 on their home court. In the former case, one should at least expect the 1 or 2 to be able to win on the road vs. a team 15 slots below them on the S curve (or 30 slots in the case of the 2-10 matchup UK might face). In the latter, the home court difference would be more likely to sway the outcome. But one can also respond to the complaints from a 3 or 4 by saying: "win more games to get a 1 or a 2 and you won't have the problem".

Being too lazy to look for venue info that's not on Wikipedia, I went back to examine some past instances high seeds playing at the home of a lower seed.

year region team/seed result
2004 East #8 Va Tech Lost in Rd 2 to #1 Penn State
East #5 Notre Dame S16, after upsetting out #4 UNC
East #11 UCSB Lost in S16 to #2 UConn, after upsetting #6 Colorado and #3 Houston
MidEast #6 Ohio State Lost in Rd 2 to #3 Boston College
MidEast #7 Minnesota Final Four, upsetting #2 Kansas State, #3 Boston College, #1 Duke
Midwest #12 New Mexico Lost in Rd 1 to #5 Florida
Midwest #10 Chattanooga Upset #7 Rutgers in Rd 1, lost to #2 Vandy
West #11 Temple Lost in Rd 1 to #6 TCU
2005 Tempe #13 UCSB @Fresno Lost in Rd 1 to #4 Notre Dame
Philadelphia #14 Hartford @Storrs Lost in Rd 1 to #3 Rutgers
Philadelphia #7 Maryland Lost in Rd 2 to #2 Ohio State
2006 Cleveland #8 Vanderbilt Lost in Rd 2 to #1 UNC
Cleveland #10 Old Dominion Lost in Rd 1 to #7 G. Washington
Albuquerque #9 Notre Dame @W. Lafayette Lost in Rd 1 to #8 Boston College
Albuquerque #14 N. Arizona @Tucson Lost in Rd 1 to #3 Baylor
2007 Dayton #8 Pitt Lost in Rd 2 to #1 Tenn
Greensboro #5 Mich St. Lost in Rd 2 to #4 Rutgers
Greensboro #13 UC-Riverside @Los Angeles. Lost in Rd 1 to #3 Arizona State
2008 Greensboro #5 Old Dominion Lost in S16 to UConn after upsetting #4 Virginia (does this count?)
Greensboro #7 Iowa State @Des Moines Lost in Rd 2 to #2 Rutgers
Spokane #12 New Mexico Lost in Rd 1 to #5 W. Virginia
Oklahoma City #9 Purdue Lost in Rd 2 to #1 Tenn
2009 Trenton #11 Georgia @Duluth Lost in Rd 1 to #6 Ariz. St.
Trenton #7 Notre Dame Upset in Rd 1 by #10 Minnesota
Berkeley #9 Mich State Lost in S16 to Iowa State after upsetting #8 Middle Tenn, and #1 Duke
Berkeley #10 San Diego St. Lost in Rd 2 to #2 Stanford after upsetting #7 DePaul
Raleigh #6 LSU Lost in Rd 2 to #3 Louisville
Oklahoma City #8 Iowa Lost in Rd 1 to #9 Georgia Tech
Oklahoma City #12 Gonzaga @Seattle Lost in Rd 2 to #4 Pitt after upsetting #5 Xavier
Oklahoma City #7 Rutgers Lost in S16 to #6 Purdue after upsetting #2 Auburn in Rd 2
2010 Memphis #6 Texas Lost in Rd 1 to #11 San Diego State
Sacramento #7 Gonzaga @Seattle

Lost to #3 Xavier in S16 after upsetting #2 TAMU in Rd 2

(painful memories of that one)

2011 Philadelphia #6 Penn State Lost in Rd 2 to #3 Duke
Dayton #11 JMU Lost in Rd 1 to #6 OU
Spokane #11 Gonzaga Lost to Stanford in the E8 after upsetting #6 Iowa, #3 UCLA, and #7 Louisville
Dallas #10 La Tech @Bossier City Lost in Rd 1 to #7 Rutgers
Dallas #15 McNeese St. @Bossier City Lost in Rd 1 to #2 TAMU
2012 Des Moines #8 tOSU @Bowling Green Lost in Rd 1 to #9 Florida
Des Moines #14 UALR Lost in Rd 1 to #3 Delaware
Fresno #16 Hampton @Norfolk Lost in Rd 1 to #1 Stanford
Fresno #6 OU Lost in Rd 2 to #3 St. Johns
Fresno #7 Vandy Lost in Rd 2 to #2 Duke
Kingston #5 LSU Lost in Rd 2 to #4 Penn State
Kingston #11 Gonzaga Lost in S16 to #2 Kentucky after upsetting #6 Rutgers and #3 Miami

I bolded those cases where the lower seed upset a higher seed. There were many home court lower seeds in 2004. In 2005-2008 , the problem was partially dealt with by not having 16 sites for rounds 1 and 2. In 2009 the tourney went to 16 sites for the sub-regionals... and the number of lower seeds getting home court went up too.

My take home lessons from this:

  • In general, as expected, the home court is worth something but it's probably within the noise of this small sample size of the cases where close seeds played each other.
  • More specifically: If you are going anywhere near the Zags as a higher seed, be afraid.

This year Spokane is a regional site as well as a sub-regional.

X
Log In Sign Up

forgot?
Log In Sign Up

Forgot password?

We'll email you a reset link.

If you signed up using a 3rd party account like Facebook or Twitter, please login with it instead.

Forgot password?

Try another email?

Almost done,

By becoming a registered user, you are also agreeing to our Terms and confirming that you have read our Privacy Policy.

Join Swish Appeal

You must be a member of Swish Appeal to participate.

We have our own Community Guidelines at Swish Appeal. You should read them.

Join Swish Appeal

You must be a member of Swish Appeal to participate.

We have our own Community Guidelines at Swish Appeal. You should read them.

Spinner.vc97ec6e

Authenticating

Great!

Choose an available username to complete sign up.

In order to provide our users with a better overall experience, we ask for more information from Facebook when using it to login so that we can learn more about our audience and provide you with the best possible experience. We do not store specific user data and the sharing of it is not required to login with Facebook.

tracking_pixel_9347_tracker