Taking Shots At The WNBA Is So Last Year (Month) (Week)
by Seth Pollack on Sep 8, 2011 11:08 AM EDT
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PrintI used to get all defensive when writers got bored with their lives and decided to attack the WNBA for not being...whatever. These days, it's all just noise. That's not to say the WNBA doesn't have issues and has a long way to go before it meets its potential, but rushing the process is a good way to end up like My Space.
In this fun little read, someone called Ethan Sherwood Strauss on something called Hoopspeak makes a pretty good point about the over-hype that can go on within the WNBA community:
A 5% improvement over "irrelevant" does not necessarily equal "relevant."
He's absolutely right.
The WNBA isn't doing "great" and it's not particularly relevant outside a fairly small (but dedicated) group of supporters.
But then he goes off the rails:
The WNBA needs to make a leap, not a hop...I believe that a WNBA, marketed as an annual (tournament) event, would gain purchase in our culture.
There's some other mess in there about the WNBA being a "dragging impact on NBA TV rights value" which is total nonsense as evidenced by the actual evidence of dramatic increases NBA revenue (and TV rights fees).
Here's a wild idea, just let the WNBA alone. The league is close to breaking even and not "dragging" anyone. If you don't like it, don't watch. It's really that simple.
It's very true that the WNBA doesn't have a broad appeal. It was also true of the NBA in 1961 when that nine-team league was 15-years-old and had a TOTAL attendance of 174,559. (In 2010 WNBA drew 1.6 million.)
To suggest the WNBA is somehow hurting the NBA is pure gobbledygook. The cost of an entire 11-player WNBA roster is 95% less than what Vince Carter made last season. So how about we just let these athletes have their league and let their fans have their fun.
Maybe the WNBA will someday have 30 teams and giant TV deals and huge player salaries. Or maybe it will never get big like that. In the mean time, who cares. Just enjoy it or ignore it at your pleasure.
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I agree that I don't think the WNBA is dragging the NBA down
but I agree that the WNBA must take a leap forward and perhaps some innovative ways to spice up the season and/or to showcase certain players more can go a long way towards doing that. I also made a point about a 5% viewership increase from an already bad TV rating nationally.
One big problem about the WNBA is that the NCAA women’s basketball tournament is followed a lot more closely, though much if not most of it is done in the name of school spirit rather than for love of the game. The best American WNBA players had their heydays while they were in college, but not as pros, even though it’s obvious that they became better after becoming WNBA players. This is not a good disconnect to see.
This is so very true
A Stanford STH friend said she didn’t watch the WNBA because “it wasn’t quality basketball” (what?!) and then later in our “spirited discussion” finally admitted she mostly wasn’t interested because there weren’t that many Stanford players that had made it in the league. And I do think it’s tough when you start off as a college sports fan and have all your rivalries and players you “hate” and then you go watch the pros and you’re supposed to suddenly like those formerly “hated” players because they’re on your pro team. (Ask San Jose Lasers fans how they felt about getting Clarisse Machanguana).
I think a lot of that continued adjustment will come with continually improved exposure. My friend, after watching a few games this year, did finally admit they were of much higher quality than she remembered from the first seasons (when most of the talent went to the ABL). She did comment that she didn’t feel into the game, but she was watching the Sun vs. Dream which is…not really an awesome starting place for a Stanford fan. LOL I told her she had to remember she didn’t need to like ALL of the teams.
by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 8, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Mystics fans who also are fans of the team that wears those bygodawful uniforms last Monday, look the other way when a Duke player
is on the team.
this is
not all that dissimilar to where men’s basketball was at one time when the talent pool was smaller and congregated at a few schools
The league tried to grow faster than the talent base allowed and that didn’t work. We are just now entering the first generation of young players who grew up with the WNBA being a fixture in their formative years.
You can tweak the marketing and always improve, but some of this is just generational and takes time.
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
"We are just now entering the first generation of young players who grew up with the WNBA being a fixture in their formative years"
I think about that every time I start to feel annoyed at the screaming children on camp days.
Even if not one of those girls in the crowd ends up in the W – or boys in the NBA, for that matter – aggressively supporting the growth of a generation of fans that never knew a world without women’s professional basketball is about the best thing the league can do for itself right now.
To achieve “relevance”, people have to be talking about it and excited about it. I’d say that’s even more true now than when the NFL/NBA were in their early stages because the media landscape is so different and there are literally 1000s of entertainment options available to people at any given moment. it will just take time for something new to establish a foothold in that landscape.
But speaking of that word “relevant” – to who, what, when and where? Growing up in the Bay Area, NASCAR and country music isn’t “relevant” to me or anyone I know. I played (one very sub-par year of) volleyball in high school and I can promise that boy’s volleyball and Too Short* are irrelevant to many NASCAR fans growing up in places where neither is played. Relevance has absolutely nothing to do with the value of something to those who follow it or make a living pursuing their passion for it.
I will never understand why people are so concerned with making claims about the relevance of other people’s interests.
*I am not making any correlation between playing volleyball and listening to Too Short in the Bay Area. In fact, Too Short might be offended.
Twitter: @NateP_SBN.
by Nate Parham on Sep 8, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
my favorite part of your team this year
has been watching die-hard Maryland fans and die-hard Duke fans bond to the point of offering to buy drinks at the ACC tournament.
I am the victim of a basketball jones.
Time heals all wounds (?)
One aspect that’s forgotten is that the NBA has been around for a very long time and has had the opportunity to build loyalty, while the WNBA has had to build loyalty from the ground up. All but seven of the 30 NBA teams were in their present locations before 1990, whereas all of the WNBA franchises have been around from 1997 on. Teams like the Celtics and the Knicks have had three generations to generate loyalty in sports; the WNBA hasn’t even hit the 20 year mark yet. (*)
As for the college game, even though women’s basketball on a nationwide scale only barely starts with Title IX in 1971, all of the rivalries are built-in from college rivalries that sometimes predate pro men’s basketball. North Carolina vs. Duke always has meant something, whether that something is football or men’s basketball – it was only natural that it would mean something in women’s basketball as well.
Given that sports in general has traditionally been a tool to emphasize male accomplishment (and even today, to disparage those aspects of personality traditionally called “feminine”), the WNBA is far from a failure. Frankly, it’s a freaking miracle.
(*) – After 15 seasons of the NBA, there were only eight teams, and only four of those teams are still alive and in the same locations today.
by James Bowman on Sep 8, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
speaking on how rivalries are born
do you think UConn-Tennessee stands a chance to be a good men’s college basketball rivalry? They play each other there now (at least for next year), and they’re gonna play a football series too. Should there be a UConn-Tennessee rivalry that is at least semi-regular in football, like Maryland-Navy (they try to do it once every four years) or an annual game in men’s basketball (which is not already in the Big East-SEC challenge), the fans would need to thank the women’s basketball teams for spearheading it.
I agree that it’s a miracle the WNBA has lasted 15 years, because I didn’t think it would have lasted 10 years quite frankly. At the same time, there are more people going to WNBA games than most college games.
I don't see it....
…one problem is that most of the great rivalries are inter-conference rivalries. When going outside the conference, there’s a natural weakening due to lack of familiarity. For example, there might be a Notre Dame-USC rivalry in football due to the history of great games; in basketball, not so much.
we're an easy target
because, let’s face it, half of these guys haven’t gotten past “OMG GIRLS NO THEY HAVE COOTIES!”
more cogent analysis to come.
I am the victim of a basketball jones.
can you prove they don't?
I didn’t think so
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
Vinsanity
Eddy Curry is a better example. He made more than the salary cap of every WNBA team combined last season and never played a second.
at the same time
I would have gladly taken Penny Taylor on the Suns last year over VC
Raising Arizona Sports at SB Nation Arizona twitter: @sethpo
How come it’s Bill Simmons, and not Seth Pollack, who gets paid to write and talk about basketball? It’s unbelievable.
Lauren Jackson is back, and not a moment too soon!
by WaveOcean on Sep 9, 2011 12:56 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
One thing I think is far from a sure thing is the
long term success of the WNBA. David Stern talks about it not costing the NBA anything now, but you still need the teams to make money. I think only the Sun is doing that and they have a unique situation.
The Sun has several unique factors
1. Not in any metro area (I guess New London, but it’s not in a major metro area)
2. University of Connecticut is about an hour away, but it’s in Connecticut, and it is a place where people will spend good money to watch women’s basketball
3. The team owns its own arena. MSG and Ted Leonsis are the two other WNBA owners who own their own arenas.
4. Given that the arena is in a casino, there is a large amount of traffic, and perhaps it may be easier to fill in the stands with gamblers, either by winning free tickets, or they want to see some recurring show, and the Sun is the Casino’s “running show.”
I'm starting to wonder if this is a general trend
A couple of the guys at the office have started teasing me about the league. One just doesn’t know what he’s talking about and is trying to get my goat- “oh, I heard the Liberty only won two games all year”.
The other is a Knicks season subscriber who first went and told me that the league was going to fold because of the lockout, then kept bringing up how desperate the Libs were to sell him playoff tickets.
We’re an easy target. We’re out of the ordinary, we’re girls, we’re the weak little sister. There aren’t consequences. And that makes me sad.
I am the victim of a basketball jones.
by Queenie on Sep 10, 2011 9:52 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
You tell those gasbags
“Two games, huh? That’s more games than the Knicks have won in the playoffs in the last 9 years.”
“Who’s folding? The NBA’s the league without a season right now.”
Also, nobody tries to sell you playoff tickets unless you’ve purchased Liberty tickets in the past. And he’s just one guy. He really doesn’t matter as much as he wants to think.
Don’t be the weak little sister. Don’t be sad. If they try to shove you around, push back! If they say “fuck you”, you’ve got to come right back and say, “No! Fuck YOU!”
It was Phoenix then, and it's Phoenix now. Storm, you know what you gotta do!
I bite my tongue to be polite
Because the response I have been formulating in my head to the Knicks season subscriber is, “Dear sir, I have been exceedingly polite to you, due to an unfortunate accident where I mixed you up with one of the other salesmen. However, the point remains that perhaps the Liberty were e-mailing you vis-a-vis playoff tickets to familiarize you, as a Knicks fan, with the concept of a *post*season. And I am fairly certain that the Knicks’ attendance would also suffer if they were exiled to New Jersey. Most importantly, I cannot help but notice that one of us currently has a team and the other does not.”
And I think that would start a fight.
I am the victim of a basketball jones.
by Queenie on Sep 12, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You can also say that the Knicks and Liberty share thes same business staff
so when the liberty are asking him to buy tickets, the knicks are asking him. At least MSG asks their potential buyers to BUY tickets. The Wizards on the other hand will just give all season ticket holders four complimentary tickets to every Mystics playoff game if we ever make the playoffs again….
"There aren’t consequences."
So true.
And that, regardless of whether one likes the WNBA, should concern us as a society.
But that’s not to say visibility and quality of presentation aren’t problems for the league: I’ve had more than one tell me that the broadcast commentary alone turned them off from the game…so….while I lament these scenarios, I think there are always things that the league and its supporters (Swish Appeal included) could improve upon as it grows.
Twitter: @NateP_SBN.
To my pleasant mild shock - WNBA are getting their second wind
Read it and enjoy, if you definitely support the WNBA in concept and its players good works.
http://sports.yahoo.com/wnba/news?slug=ycn-8912838.
Most of the league experienced double digit home attendance increases.
If you understand macroeconomics and present household income and employment trends in the United States (i.e the Obama speech on 9/8/11),
the league appears to be increasing its success even while it is burdened with the
albatross of present recessionary economic realities.
I closely observe the Chicago Sky. It is amazing that a team that clearly underperformed
this year still increased its attendance by 33% in a market that is hypercompetitive
for the sports entertainment fan (summer indoor pro football teams, major league soccer team, 2 MLB teams, a half dozen minor league baseball teams, etc.)
Generally, for the league I think that slow growth is the way to go so the league
doesn’t end up the way of Borders Books and Circuit City.
I don’t know if it would cannibalize or add to the attendance if the WNBA
added Philadelphia and San Francisco teams to the league.
I think these cities are the most financially and culturally viable new markets
for the league.
The teams would be foolish to rest on their laurels from their recent increases in attendance and TV ratings.
I think that their best opportunity is to attract more U.S. and foreign male basketball
enthusiasts who don’t feel by necessity that they should watch only baseball
in the summer (or only male basketball).
The league can retain its present fans and grow its fan base if (1) maintains and develops highly productive players (2) maintains and develops flashy, exciting players
(3) effectively market those players and their teams. Think about the strong growth
in interest from fans of both genders during the 80s with Jordan, Olajuwon, Barkley, Magic, Bird, Aguirre, Wilkins, Drexler, Malone, etc.. Any addicted fan or casual observer could more or less count on an interesting show any night that these players and players of their ilk were in town or on T.V. Particularly when they played each other. The 80s was the period when the NBA was trying to conquer its self-described low attendance
and image (bad boy) problems.
The sports media seemed to get excited and awaken from is indifference to the WNBA by Candace Parker when she performed impressively in her rookie year.
Lauren Jackson’s incredible 2008/2009/2010 low post, high post, and three point productivity also created an compelling show.
I think that the teams and players that effectively shoot 3 pointers on a consistent basis help sustain excitement. Katie Douglas, Sue Bird, Katie Smith, Becky Hammon, Cappie Pondexter, Penny Taylor, Kristi Toliver , Diana Taurasi, and Montgomery are good examples of this.
GET LIZ CAMBAGE ABLE TO DUNK!!! REPEATEDLY and CONSISTENTLY!! She is 6’8"!!
“Cambage for the 2 hand jam!!”
A smart and fortunate piece of marketing is the ESPN telecasts and the ABC broadcasts
of the All Star contest. I believe that NBA TV is available worldwide and I have to
wonder what the opportunity is in those countries that have winter leagues
where WNBA players play.
When Chicago area fans watched the Bulls when they were ok (or poor) but not great in the late 70s, early 80s, and early 2000s I usually knew that the other team had certain players that would be impressive and fun to watch. Therefore, there was adequate potential for a good show at least from the opposition.
But each team should have its own Taurasi, Parker, Jackson, Fowles, etc.
and it would help the league’s image if they would consistently go beyond
the use of highly productive fundamentals and more frequently add that
globetrotters type of style to the mix.
I don't understand how there are problem over at the Yahoo URL
Therefore, here is the article about the attendance increases.
If there is a copyright issue then and this copy and pasted article must be deleted then
you can Google “WNBA Attendance Chicago Sky 33” and the article to read
is “WNBA attendance up impressively so far in 2011 season.”
-——————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
WNBA attendance up impressively so far in 2011 season
By Joe Dorish, Yahoo! Contributor Network
Aug 8, 12:20 pm EDT
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Just past the halfway mark in the WNBA season, overall attendance in the league is up by about 2.4% from what it was over the 2010 season. So far in 2011, the average attendance at a WNBA game is 8,025. In 2010, the league averaged 7,834 fans per game.
While a 2.4% increase in attendance might not sound that great, looking behind the numbers the increase is pretty impressive. That’s because my favorite WNBA team, the New York Liberty, are playing their home games this season at the Prudential Center in Newark, New Jersey while Madison Square Garden is being renovated.
Prior to 2011, the Liberty played all their home games at Madison Square Garden in New York City. From 1997 through 2010, the Liberty averaged 11,926 fans per game. In 2010, the Liberty averaged 11,069 fans per home game.
So far in the 2011 season, through 11 home games at the Prudential Center, the Liberty are averaging 8,025 fans per game. That is a decrease of 3,044 fans per game from 2010. Despite the fact that the Liberty have seen almost a 30% drop in attendance in 2011, overall attendance in the WNBA is still up by 2.4%.
If we exclude the Liberty attendance figures from 2010 and 2011, the overall attendance in the WNBA in 2011 is up by 6.5% from 2010. I think that is a much more accurate figure of how the WNBA is doing so far this season.
WNBA Teams with Biggest Increase in Attendance so far in 2011
Chicago Sky – 33%
The Chicago Sky are up 33% in home attendance so far in 2011. An excellent increase, but the team is still averaging just 5,711 fans per home game this season.
Los Angeles Sparks – 16.5%
The Sparks are up 16.5% in home attendance so far in 2011. Pretty good considering the team has been playing without Candace Parker, and is just 7-12 on the season.
San Antonio Silver Stars – 15.1%
Through nine home games, the Silver Stars are drawing an average of 1,218 more fans per game in 2011 vs 2010. After a 14-20 season in 2010, the Silver Stars are 11-7 in 2011.
Washington Mystics – 15%
The Mystics, who always have drawn well at home, are averaging 1,406 more fans per home game in 2011 vs 2010. That is despite the fact that the Mystics are 3-14 this season, after going 22-12 in 2010.
WNBA Teams with Biggest Attendance Decline so far in 2011
Connecticut Sun – down 10%
Excluding the New York Liberty due to their unique home court situation in 2011, the team showing the biggest drop in attendance in 2011 is the Connecticut Sun. Despite their winning record of 12-6 vs last season’s 17-17, the Sun are averaging 733 fewer fans per home game this season.
Indiana Fever – down 8.3%
The Fever are drawing 682 fewer fans in 2011 to home games than they did in 2010. The Fever went 21-13 last season, and are 14-6 so far in 2011.
Tulsa Shock – down 2.7%
The shocking stat is that the woeful Tulsa Shock are only down 2.7% in attendance. Though they did only win six games in all of 2010, the Shock have just one win so far in 2011.
Note: This article was written by a Yahoo! contributor. Sign up here to start publishing your own sports content.
Updated Aug 8, 12:20 pm EDT
Well these paid attendance figures can be deceiving.
Washington had the most attendance based on paid figures, but the yield was pathetic. The amount of people who actually show up to a game to me in many ways matter more. Teams like Seattle and Minny look like they have very good yields, even though their paid attendance figures are not as good as DC’s, and that’s because they’re probably maxed out in terms of the potential market for new WNBA fans who wanna watch a game in the arena.
The Mystics were also pretty notorious this year for handing out complimentary tickets to season ticket holders for a good amount of games, AND Wizards season ticket holders were give four tickets to the game against Seattle if they attended “Select a Seat” this past June. Maybe Caps STH’s also got complimentary tix too, and these do count in those figures.
Yeah but teams have always given out freebies
I’d bet the number of free tickets is either holding steady or actually lower now than it was in the earlier days of the league.
by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 12, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
True, every team does it
even the NHL, NBA, and MLB do it, not so sure on the NFL.
This however becomes an issue when teams average high attendance numbers and don’t get much revenue, regardless of league.
I would imagine that in today’s WNBA, every team except the Washington Mystics tries to keep comp tickets to a minimum. Yes, they’re there, but not to the point where they end up being half of the paid attendance.
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