NCAA Women's Basketball: Attendance Winners and Losers for 2010-11

by James Bowman on Sep 21, 2011 10:31 AM EDT

Looking at the attendance numbers between 2010 and 2011 is - well, hard. The NCAA is great on talking about increases in attendance, but not so great regarding declines. So to give both sides equal weight, I decided I'd focus on the teams that had the biggest total changes in average attendance per game in both directions between the ends of the 2010 and 2011 NCAA women's basketball seasons - along with reasons why I thought attendance might have changed.

As we all know, women's basketball a) isn't promoted very well and b) faces a great deal of resistance from the more reactionary part of the sports world. Some teams like Tennessee can average 10,000 + in attendance per game but most teams have three-digit averages. Granted, we're examining all 343 Division I schools, including schools from very minor conferences where the gym facilities were probably built by the Works Projects Administration. But even so, one wonders where all the school spirit has gone.

First, the winners:

Team	2010	2011	Total Change

Louisville	5968	10859	4891	New Yum! Center Seats 22,000
Iowa	3488	5823	2335	9865 saw Iowa beat Ohio State
St. John's	945	2200	1255	First back to back NCAA since 83-84
Michigan St.	6192	7388	1196	Big Ten winner of Pack the House
West Virginia	1947	3103	1156	School record in attendance
Gonzaga	2931	4060	1129	Sloot undoubtedly helped
Texas A&M	5155	6104	949	Fans must have suspected something….
Boise St.	1658	2509	851	Team got worse but attendance jumped
Oregon	2254	3100	846	$2 tickets = record attendance
McNeese St.	369	1197	828	Cowgirls were undefeated at home

And now, the teams which declined in attendance from 2010-2011:

Team	2010	2011	Total Change

Nebraska	7390	4333	-3057	Biggest gainer previous year
Oklahoma	7681	5490	-2191	Offer of prizes must not have helped
Dayton	3404	1400	-2004	Even with NCAA grant attendance fell
Rhode Island	2417	811	-1606	New conference in future?
AR Pine Bluff	2793	1363	-1430	Finished 1-28 for the year
Kansas	3772	2405	-1367	They got their grant in 2009
Mississippi	1866	637	-1229	Hoping to get new arena soon
Wisconsin	5635	4664	-971	Coach Lisa Stone ended up fired
Georgia	4336	3467	-869	Who knows? Maybe more Tech fans?
Minnesota	4347	3540	-807	Rough seasons recently

Mississippi is a particularly sad case, but there's a drive to improve the campus facilities - maybe no one wants to go to Ole Miss's arena. The five worst average attendances per game from power conferences were:

1. Providence: 390

2. Seton Hall: 509

3. Washington State: 608

4. Mississippi: 637

5. Wake Forest: 687

So why didn't Providence make the "Biggest Drop" list? Namely because Providence's average attendance the previous season was 335! It's hard to conceive that Providence has the lowest women's basketball attendance of any power conference team...and it went up!! Generally, these schools didn't hit the "largest drop" list because they were too close to the ground to start with.

Okay. What can be done, besides moaning and groaning? A school can always apply for an NCAA grant
with the hope of using the money to improve attendance. We've definitely written about methods at Swish Appeal before.

Supposedly (I have no proof of this) Purdue used something like a priority system for ticket allocation - attending sports that didn't get media attention - women's basketball included - were a factor in determining what kind of seats you got for the heavily promoted sports (football, men's basketball) and how easy they'd be to get. Before the perpetually aggrieved scream "reverse discrimination", nothing about this system stated you had to attend women's sports - overlooked sports like wrestling, or volleyball, or tennis contributed their own points. And it makes sense - you want to give your tickets to those who are loyal to your school, and not just one small aspect of it.

Hopefully next year I'll be writing about how every school is in four digit attendance. (Only the Big 10 and Big 12 have all schools in four-digits in attendance.) And if not next year, well, hurry up because no one's getting any younger here.

UPDATE: Eagle-eyed reader RP_45 noted the .pdf report of 2011 NCAA attendance, which gives different numbers for St. John's. In which case, the 10th highest increase in attendance would belong to Kentucky.

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Comments

Attendance is going to be based on a combination of

1. How good the team is overall in the sport right now
2. How good the conference is in the sport
3. How well marketed the team is
4. The type of facility the team plays in

The likes of Providence and Seton Hall averaging very low attendance doesn’t surprise me when they are typically the bottom feeders of the Big East, AND the teams play in high school gyms. When they have to play against some other teams in the same league like UConn and Louisville that play in larger and nicer facilities, it’s gonna be a lot harder for them to get better players on the recruiting end. As for Wake Forest, I guess the Deacs are in a conference that is good in women’s hoops from the top down, and they play in a nice facility, but unfortunately, they are at the bottom end most years.

As for a points allocation system for major conference sports teams’ marquee sports whether it’s football or basketball, I agree with it. There are a lot of people who are fans of only one sports team in a major university, and these universities would prefer that those fans like all of the sports teams, even though that’s really a dream. For example at Kentucky, I have no problem with making ticket buyers hold a combination of women’s basketball, wrestling, baseball, or mid-tier football tickets for some time before getting the rights to buy men’s basketball season tickets in a prime location. Even after someone buys men’s basketball season tickets, I also have no problem giving incentive laden deals for them to still hold the tix for the other sports and compelling them to go to those events, in exchange for discounts or something. You gotta earn your stripes before getting the big prize and drink a couple of shots with Coach Cal.

by thewiz06 on Sep 21, 2011 10:52 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs

"You gotta earn your stripes before getting the big prize and drink a couple of shots with Coach Cal."

I’d have to agree – this is similar to what we talked about at Michigan as well (where football, mbb, and hockey as well are more successful/popular than women’s basketball).

An incentive package is better than the basic throw-in that I know some schools have tried.

Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Sep 21, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions

James: a question from Twitter

http://twitter.com/ATXScott/status/116554634277027840

Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Sep 21, 2011 1:20 PM EDT reply actions

I have total attendance for all Division I teams for 2009-10 and 2010-11

…in a spreadsheet. Working on adding 2008-09.

2010 numbers: http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/weeklyrpi/2010WBBattend1.html
2011 numbers: http://web1.ncaa.org/app_data/weeklyrpi/2011WBBattend1.html

Since I can’t tweet from work, if Scott is interested he can e-mail me using the e-mail in my profile and I’ll send him the raw numbers. If he needs to make direct comparisons of specific programs or to know leaders, those webpages would be the best places to start.

by James Bowman on Sep 21, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Oklahoma dropped 2191?! Epic fail, Sooner fans. Epic fail.

“What is wrong with you people? Yeah I’m talking to you! Why didn’t you come to watch my senior year?!”

What? That hurts my brain, seriously. What did I miss that could possibly explain that? You’re using regular season home attendance numbers, right? OU only lost one more game in ‘10-’11 than they did in ‘09-’10. And yes, they fell ou tof the NCAA tournament a few rounds earlier, but if these are regular season numbers that wouldn’t matter.

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 21, 2011 2:28 PM EDT reply actions

Funny you should mention that....

Total for 2010-11 Tennessee home games according to NCAA: 213,128.
Total according to Lady Vols: 205,180

There’s a 7,948 discrepancy. For a handful of very low division teams, the NCAA didn’t have data and I had to estimate. These numbers should be treated according to the instructions regarding the statistical info posted on the old plaques at the Baseball Hall of Fame – namely, that this is the most accurate data given the information we have.

by James Bowman on Sep 21, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions

As per Twitter (for those not in on our little exchange):

Looks like a possible combination of things:

1. "Paris bump:

http://twitter.com/j_lantz/status/116597527595331584

Which brings up another very interesting issue of WHO teams market. Paris was sort of a national figure even out of high school that Robinson wasn’t – my sister and I went to a USF vs. Okla game just to catch her because we heard she was gonna be back in town. Even looking at their website, they’ve branded Paris as something of an icon (for good reason: she was a dominant college player)

http://www.soonersports.com/sports/w-baskbl/

This marquee player issue would also help to explain the Nebraska drop.

2. Ticket prices:

http://twitter.com/Rusty_Olson/status/116599504081399808

I know colleges have metrics on how cost influences attendance and I’d imagine increases in student ticket prices might be more significant that general admission.

Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Sep 21, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Nate do you think they should require students at major conference schools to pay money (albeit at a discount) to see football and/or men's basketball games?

My sister had to pay $100 or something like that for Michigan football tickets. For basketball, it’s better in my opinion to make them pay to go to major events like Duke vs. UNC rather than making them wait in a freaking tent for a month. I get that it’s tradition, but it’s lame. Just do a lottery by dorm or make the students pay a nominal fee for such tickets. Georgetown does that.

Obviously for my situation, A-10 football (now CAA) was free with a student ID.

by thewiz06 on Sep 21, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions

At OSU

I don’t know if OU does the same with their student tickets, but I’d imagine it’s at least similar…there is an all-sports ticket that you buy for everything but football/basketball with a somewhat nominal fee (100 or so?). If you want football tickets, you get a student ticket package. If you want basketball tickets, you get in a lottery and if you’re the lucky kid, you get to buy student tickets for men’s basketball.

I firmly maintain that OU ticket price increases are not the issue…you can buy a premium women’s basketball season ticket for $199. And single seats are as low as $8 for adults/$5 for kids.

by Jessica Lantz on Sep 21, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions

AU was free as well... and I chose to only pay for basketball, and hockey at Michigan because football was absurd

At a place like Michigan, people WILL pay so it would be economically irrational for the school not to charge students.

As I said, the moment I got there, I knew I wanted into the Big House. I’d never even watched a hockey game live before, but bought hockey season tix with a group of friends because they’re perennially good.

In contrast, at AU, charging would result in a drop in attendance so sharp that they might as well simulate the games on a computer. Bender was so empty for some women’s games that my friends and I could taunt opposing players far more easily than at the men’s games. ;)

Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Sep 21, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Ticket prices:

Here is OU’s ticket price breakdown: http://www.soonersports.com/tickets/ticket-information_womens_basketball.html

by Jessica Lantz on Sep 21, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions

You’re insistent on this point. :)

Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Sep 21, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions

It's really not that bad.

Even if the season seats went up a total of $15-$20 for the whole season, as suggested, that’s really nothing when the max cost for season tix is $199 (my Stanford tix are almost double that) and gen. ad. is $8.

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 21, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions

But you are sixth row behind the bench

Doesn’t that cost more?

by ttdomi on Sep 21, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Sure, but it's not THE most expensive ticket at Stanford.

Meanwhile, the most expensive OU season tickets is $199. And with all apologies to the Pac-10 the last few years, you’re likely to see a better overall game watching OU in the Big12 most nights.

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 21, 2011 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions

OU Numbers

did some quick nosing around the OU website to get some #s after Rusty suggested a Paris bump. It does appear that there was a bump for the Paris girls, but to me the most disheartening fact is the 2011 numbers were LOWER that the 2005 numbers.
2010-11: 5490
2009-10: 8449
2008-09: 9007
2007-08: 10254
2006-07: 10433
2005-06: ? (not listed)
2004-05: 5695
2003-04: 4922

by Jessica Lantz on Sep 21, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Note that the decline of women's basketball attendance also happened

when the Thunder came into town…. Doubt there’s a correlation there though.

by thewiz06 on Sep 21, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions

I think there is some correlation

Not sure how much, but I do think it’s a factor. A lot of people are choosing season tickets or partial season packages to the Thunder as their main form of non-college football sports entertainment. Rusty tweeted his sth friend thinks it’s a combo of no Paris Twins, reduced expectations and the Thunder…
If there is no Thunder this year (waaa!!! I hate lockouts!!), then perhaps we can see if there’s a shift up in alternate entertainment options, such as OU WBB (even sans DRob)…

by Jessica Lantz on Sep 21, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions

They do still have Whitney Hand and Aaryn Ellenberg

That’s the biggest star power I can think of off the top of my head.

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 21, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Just call Whitney the future Mrs. Landry Jones – that might bring a few people in!

by Jessica Lantz on Sep 21, 2011 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions

There was a wbb/quarterback pairing

at USC a few years ago.

by ttdomi on Sep 21, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Oklahoma State

This season OSU football season ticket holders have a little ‘incentive’ to go to those non-publicized & even some big-time sporting events. You get one ‘free’ game to men’s basketball (non-conference), women’s basketball, soccer (the Cowgirls are currently #2 & undefeated on the season so far), wrestling & maybe baseball/softball I believe. The little card is not with me & at my house, so I can’t verify the sports list is 100% accurate. But I do know for sure men’s & women’s basketball make the reward card. I think it will be interesting to see how many of the 50,000+ season ticket holders take advantage this year…

by Jessica Lantz on Sep 21, 2011 2:45 PM EDT reply actions

However, given the fact that not attending the women’s BB game seems to have no effect on the ability to get premium tix at OSU, I wonder how much of an incentive free tickets really are. Someone might say, “how nice of OSU, free tickets…but I’ll probably never use them.”

The counter-argument could go that if people had to purchase events to non-publicized sports to boost their chances for premium tix, they’d grumble, purchase the tickets to the non-publicized sports, and then give them away – or more likely, let them go to waste seeing it as a price much like that of a personal seating license.

Even so, it would be more money for the programs, I suppose….

by James Bowman on Sep 21, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions

OSU football also requires you to purchase a full season ticket to football in order to get into the premium game (this has been in place 3 seasons I think). This year’s premium is OU. So you can’t buy single game tickets for Bedlam, you have to have a season ticket. I thought it would lead to some people (i.e. OU fans) buying tickets and only going to the one game, thus leaving empty seats. But so far, it seems like the stadium has been pretty full and this hasn’t had a huge effect.

As for the free ticket deal, it’s something that’s never been done before, so I think it’s worth a shot. The way OSU prioritizes good tickets is with monetary donations. This is the same with every sport. You want courtside or midcourt at men’s or women’s basketball, you can donate an extra amount of money to get them.

Anyway, long ramble longer – I would rather the incentive actually bring a person to the game rather than like you said, have the seats be empty. But that’s just me. :)

by Jessica Lantz on Sep 21, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions

I considered the counterargument myself.

but attendance can certainly be tracked at the sports that aren’t football, men’s basketball, and at UConn and TEnnessee, women’s basketball. Which is why a rewards systems for people showing school loyalty could work for those who truly want season tickets for the football or basketball team. Make the system easier for alumni too obviously, because they have the degree from the school. There also is a chance that the ticket buyers at let’s say UK again get tickets for the baseball team and end up liking the baseball team a lot more than they anticipated and that’s a bonus.

by thewiz06 on Sep 21, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions

re: Oregon

Part of their increase was influenced by Mac Court closing and Knight Arena (much bigger and, quite frankly, one of the nicest arenas I’ve ever sat in) opening for the Civil War with OSU mid-season.

With Knight open a whole season, it will be interesting how they do this year.

Along those lines, might also be interesting to do what Jessica did once before – looking at percent of capacity rather than raw numbers. But that’s a much larger project…

Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Sep 21, 2011 3:16 PM EDT reply actions

true, I wonder what the Georgetown women's avg was last year

and my high school’s gym is as big as McDonough. Let’s hope I can actually go there someday.

by thewiz06 on Sep 21, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Part of the difficulty

…is getting accurate records for facility capacities, particularly large arenas that might have different capacities for men’s vs. women’s basketball.

by James Bowman on Sep 21, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions

"With Knight open a whole season, it will be interesting how they do this year."

And with Nia Jackson healthy.

HEALTHY NIA JACKSON, PLEASE, BASKETBALL GODS? PLEASE??

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 21, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions

Seriously...

That’s a good point.

They lost her not too long after the opening of Knight.

Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Sep 21, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Kind of a downer when you lose your big star early on.

I may need to make the Oregon road trip again this year just to see her play.

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 21, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Three OSU's in the country

by ttdomi on Sep 21, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Speaking of incentives and freebies...

UCLA’s Wooden Athletic Fund for $100 is one of the best deals in college sports: http://www.woodenathleticfund.com/pages/memeber_benefits/benefits_chart.html

“A Wooden Athletic Fund membership card entitles members to complimentary general admission to all regular season UCLA Athletics home events other than football and men’s basketball. Simply present your membership card at the event entrance gate for admission.”

You get 2 tickets (available each game) on the $100 level. When I was in LA, I would get that and go to all the WBB, soccer, track & field, and softball games. Never needed to buy season tickets.

Now that I’m up in the Bay Area, look at what I get for a $100 donation to Buck Cardinal!
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/stan/genrel/auto_pdf/BCC-Benefits-chart.pdf

Gee, thanks, Stanford. :|

(Noe Quinn thinks I should have stuck with the Bruins.)

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 21, 2011 3:34 PM EDT reply actions

I didn't think the NCAA considered women's basketballl an olympic sport

and I would call it the marquee women’s sport generally speaking.

While I think it is a good deal, there is no incentive for the Wooden AC members to actually go to any events… Also, at least for women’s basketball, are there seats which require a donation, like courtside? UCLA would be stupid not to require them.

by thewiz06 on Sep 21, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions

"I didn't think the NCAA considered women's basketballl an olympic sport"

Uh, the Olympics consider it an Olympic sport?

There are regular tickets for women’s basketball: http://www.uclabruins.com/tickets/wbaskbl-tickets.html

The freebies with the Wooden card are general admission, which are not the most awesome seats. Also, the UCLA women hardly pull in enough people to start insisting on donations for seats. Call them when they start filling Pauley and see if that changes.

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 21, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Interestingly...

UCLA WBB season tickets are only $79/seat, less than the Wooden card.

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 21, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Correct

Was just putting the relative costs out there. Also, as noted, how many games do you really go to if you buy the Wooden card?

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 21, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions

Most of the buyers of that card would probably not go to any.

maybe a few at most. Doubt anyone would seriously use that card to watch every UCLA sports game that isn’t in the Rose Bowl or in Wooden Arena to see the “real team” play.

by thewiz06 on Sep 21, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, I couldn't physically go to EVERY game

But I sure did get some use out of that card. ;)

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 21, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions

You my friend

are really dedicated

by thewiz06 on Sep 21, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions

You must need to reach deeper into your pockets and then you can look forward

to seeing Amy Tucker announced as a “Shannon Cotterell Associate Head Coach”.

by ttdomi on Sep 21, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions

There is already an "Amy Tucker Fan Club" at Stanford with very deep pockets

They will beat me out for the honor…or more correctly, I would join with them and then Amy Tucker could be announced as “Amy Tucker, the Amy Tucker Fan Club Associate Head Coach”,

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 22, 2011 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions

What do you think Stanford does with the money that

they would have had to pay to Van Derveer had some rich fan not decided to pay her salary?

by ttdomi on Sep 22, 2011 3:36 AM EDT up reply actions

I should add that I had previously read that rich alumni were

paying the salary of former football coach Tyrone Willingham, so it is not just a wbb practice.

by ttdomi on Sep 22, 2011 3:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Endowments pay for a lot of things at Stanford

The only weird thing about what happened with WBB is Tara’s title.

As for the money, I’m sure it gets distributed around the athletic department same as other athletic funds/donations are handled.

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 22, 2011 11:02 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions

My personal feeling is that rich people can do better things with their

fortunes than giving some to athletic departments.

by ttdomi on Sep 22, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Well...

I really like T Boone Pickens and his money a wicked lot. But that’s just because it’s going to my school.

by Jessica Lantz on Sep 23, 2011 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions

UCLA is an interesting situation to look at for ncaa wbb...

Their attendance was really not good…

http://www.uclabruins.com/sports/w-baskbl/stats/2010-2011/teamcume.html

…and it was on the upswing…

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/apr/02/sports/la-sp-0403-ucla-caldwell-20110403

…and USC’s was worse…

http://www.usctrojans.com/sports/w-baskbl/stats/2010-2011/teamcume.html

What’s up LA?

Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Sep 21, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Lakers, Lakers, and more Lakers

plus a bit of the Blake show and some UCLA basketball

by thewiz06 on Sep 21, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions

It's hard to get to the games on time, mostly.

You try to drive anywhere on the west side between 3pm and 9pm. I lived 25 miles away but I could easily count on it taking 2+ hours to get to the game. If you get off work at 5 and try to get there, you’re not walking in the door until 8pm.

Also, UCLA women have not been particularly consistently inspiring until Coach Caldwell….and now she’s gone. USC has been even more up and down, plus it’s not in the safest neighborhood.

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 21, 2011 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Maryland's attendance nearly doubled in 2007 after winning the title in 2006

Can Texas A&M do something similar? Baylor, on the other hand, only had an attendance increase of 882 from 2005 to 2006.

by RP_45 on Sep 21, 2011 4:05 PM EDT reply actions

after MD's womens' basketball attendance boomed,

Gary Williams felt the heat getting to him. But I think things are correcting themselves because UConn is back to its dominance, Tennessee will get back there, and Stanford also will be up there too. Maryland just took advantage of a rare, once every 20 years situation when none of the elite of the elite traditional powers were in the Final Four. Duke I guess is real close to that level, but it’s not at UConn/Tennessee/Stanford status overall.

by thewiz06 on Sep 21, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Speaking of TAMU...

When TAMU moves to the SEC, should we expect a decline in women’s basketball attendance?

The SEC can’t match the nightly competition of the Big 12 in wbb…and who knows what the SEC schedule will look like post-expansion…

Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Sep 21, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions

That will be interesting to chart. This year will still be Big 12, but some ppl are mad at the Aggies at running away (while others are jealous)… I’d imagine this year’s attendance will still be pretty danged solid – perhaps not the double of Maryland, but way more than the Baylor bump is my guess.

by Jessica Lantz on Sep 21, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions

There could be a decline due to loss of traditional opponents.

But I don’t think you see a decline from getting more wins. Look how many people pile into UConn games to watch blow out after blow out.

by ttdomi on Sep 21, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions

The other question is

how much different are SEC teams from Big 12??

by ttdomi on Sep 21, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions

competition wise i don't think there is much difference, but as you said

the reduction of games against Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, and OU will likely lower attendance.

But any losses from women’s basketball will be made up with interest in the form of more football revenue anyway.

by thewiz06 on Sep 21, 2011 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions

You don't think

There is much difference competition wise??? I very much do.

by Jessica Lantz on Sep 21, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Oklahomer!

by ttdomi on Sep 21, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions

RPI agrees with you

http://www.realtimerpi.com/ncaab/conf_Women.html

Take out Tennessee from the SEC and they struggle to compete with the Pac-10/A-10 by RPI (which is of course with its own flaws).

Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Sep 21, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions

UConn is its own beast...

Not sure we can compare them to anything…

Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Sep 21, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions

But I think all schools follow a similar pattern.

The more wins the more attendance. People are happier watching blowouts than close losses.

by ttdomi on Sep 21, 2011 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh I agree with that.

But entertaining basketball is also important so I was more talking about quality of competition – in the Big 12, the quality of opponent game to game is better and they’ll lose those rivalries. People will come to see Griner, OU is good, then they have in-state rivalries.

In the SEC, there’s Tennessee, Kentucky, and…then it sort of depends on the year.

Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Sep 21, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions

At UConn attendance has been dropping

but I put my hypotheses below… or theories….

by thewiz06 on Sep 21, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions

But, as unlikely as it sounds,

I think that people find winning blowouts more entertaining than close games.

I believe a 30-0 team that never loses (but does get behind in the first half sometimes and occasionally in the second half) will see it’s attendance decline if it becomes a .500 team that is right there in most contests.

by ttdomi on Sep 21, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions

As an example, I believe Stanford would

see an attendance decline if multiple Pac-12 teams rose up and began beating them regularly.

by ttdomi on Sep 21, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree

by thewiz06 on Sep 21, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Sure.

But there’s blowouts, close losses… and close wins.

It’s hard to match the entertainment value of a team that gets dramatic wins against good competition.

But bottom line, Gonzaga definitely proves that just being good and having a star player as face of the team is key.

Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Sep 21, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Watch LSU to rise again, quickly

Coach Caldwell is no joke.

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 22, 2011 11:06 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions

St. John's attendance discrepancy

In its edited report, the NCAA lists St. John’s 2011 attendance at 1,590 per game, not 2,200. Kentucky is listed as having the tenth largest increase at 739 per game.

by RP_45 on Sep 21, 2011 4:18 PM EDT reply actions

I've added an update

…and a link, so thanks for the catch!

by James Bowman on Sep 21, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions

wonder what that discounts

Double-header at MSG, other double-header with the men, or both?

Still a step up from having to borrow an Arico for timeout entertainment.

I am the victim of a basketball jones.

by Queenie on Sep 21, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Providence...

Providence place on campus and their gym only holds maybe 2000. Their extremely low attendance also includes a sell out against Connecticut last year where people traveled across the border. Without that game they probably average 100 people per game.

Also those wanting to be UConn. UConn had 1 sell out last year. It was the game against FLorida State to break the record. Other than that they have has pretty avergae attendance (for them) the last 4 or so years. And that was with Maya. I expect a significant decrease this year without her.

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by Holly C. Tanneyhill on Sep 21, 2011 5:52 PM EDT reply actions

I wonder why the women's basketball attendance at UConn has been dropping, and this is considering that the reputation of the women's team trumps the men's team and this is a top 10 men's program at that.

My hypothesis is that the expectation of the women’s basketball team is very high, maybe even irrationally high, because the team is always making an Elite Eight or better (more like Final Four or better). People therefore just get less interested until the women are in the dance and are at least in the Sweet 16, and they just assume the women’s team will always win until then.

The other hypothesis is the football team. UConn football has improved from a so-so Atlantic 10 team (though Skip Holtz got them to the quarterfinals of the playoffs once), to the defending Big East Champs with a BCS bowl in hand this year under Randy Edsall’s tenure. Their stadium has turned from a high school stadium to a nice 50,000 seat facility. That has to have played some part in cutting into people’s budgets since the UConn football team has consistently made bowls year after year.

by thewiz06 on Sep 21, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions

It has been speculated that the fact that they no longer have any white

stars is the reason. Which if true, does not bode well for WNBA attendance in a few years.

by ttdomi on Sep 21, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Connecticut is a pretty "white" state

and the team has had its share of White stars and that’s not including Diana who is Hispanic. But generally speaking there have been more white players making it in the WNBA proportion-wise than white NBA players.

Second, the UConn men’s basketball team doesn’t have many great white players. Last great white guys I can think of are Travis Knight and Jake Voskuhl.

by thewiz06 on Sep 21, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions

While race can certainly be a factor...

A bigger factor is the increase of ticket prices.

While most schools charge $5-$10 at most (Including Tennessee) UConn sees $20 as a good ticket price. In this economy, don’t ask me why.

Having 2 separate “homes” doesn’t help. In Hartford, you pay astronomical parking fees. So not only are you paying about $26.00 a seat when ticket master is done adding fees. You are paying $10.00 to park. So for a family of 4, you are already over a $100 and you haven’t eaten yet. You have 2 games a week and you are done. CT might have the average per capita income, but even that is a little extravagant for most. (Not to mention that just gets you seats. You still have to make a donation to the athletic dept. if you want season tickets.) In Storrs, you still pay for parking, campus is hard to navigate and you are driving 30 minutes to the middle of no where to get there.

But the race thing might explain this state’s fascination with Heather Buck. ;-)

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by Holly C. Tanneyhill on Sep 21, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions

highest per capita income

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by Holly C. Tanneyhill on Sep 21, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Colleges/Universities seem to be masters of adding costs at

a rate significantly higher than inflation.

by ttdomi on Sep 21, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Should say "increasing charges" not "adding costs"

by ttdomi on Sep 21, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions

same thing really...

Universities try to raise tuition for law school students the most and business school isn’t far behind. Real cash cow for them. For law especially the return on investment is getting worse and worse every yr.

by thewiz06 on Sep 21, 2011 7:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions

I wonder too, if it just got old.

Each championship probably declines in excitement and buzz since there have been so many.

by ttdomi on Sep 21, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Very good point...

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by Holly C. Tanneyhill on Sep 21, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Eh, probably not true overall. Check out the NBA.

Or check out the Lynx. Minnesota is…pretty damn white (~%91% in 2005) And, to be fair, the Lynx DO have Whalen, who is Minnesotan, and white. But the rest of the team is definitely…not very white. It’s also very dreadlocked and tattooed and completely not the normal face the WNBA puts forward. (Although, when was the last time you saw a WNBA special where they talk to Whalen about another player or something as opposed to say, Sue Bird or Becky Hammon? It’s not like Whalen’s a real league favorite, either.)

And yet…(from http://kstp.com/news/stories/S2288114.shtml?cat=1)
“Thanks to their winning ways this season, attendance is up 10.8% to around 8,500 fans per game, making it the sixth straight season of increasing attendance for the team. That’s 500 more than the league average. What’s more, Friday’s playoff game was the fourth sell-out crowd of the season.”

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 22, 2011 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions

"Other than that they have has pretty avergae attendance (for them) the last 4 or so years."

The capacity issue definitely comes into play with UConn… but most teams are happy with a game of 5000 in attendance. 5729 was UConn’s low at home… and that was during the tournament, which we already had a similarly long discussion about.

Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Sep 21, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh and I will add, Connecticut...

did react somewhat to the lower numbers. I believe ticket sales don’t mirror the men’s ticket prices for the first time. I believe they lowered them this season to about $15.00 per ticket.

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by Holly C. Tanneyhill on Sep 21, 2011 6:42 PM EDT reply actions

from my Red Storm POV

1) increased advertising- any St. John’s billboard I saw had Da’Shena Stevens alongside DJ Kennedy, or Kim Barnes Arico alongside Steve Lavin.

2) increased campus presence/awareness- there were a lot more students at games, and I’ve noticed the team really getting out the student body

3) WE DON’T SUCK ANYMORE.

I am the victim of a basketball jones.

by Queenie on Sep 21, 2011 8:15 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

what does POV stand for?

by thewiz06 on Sep 21, 2011 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions

point of view :)

by Jessica Lantz on Sep 21, 2011 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions

i feel so stupid now like Goofy saying "Gawrsh..."

by thewiz06 on Sep 22, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions

I witnessed them not sucking at Stanford last year!

Well, they probably looked better in games other than the 2 I saw, but I was cheering for them to beat Texas Tech (and they did)!

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 22, 2011 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions

(I also may have gotten a good LOL from your Twitter feed during the St. Johns/Stanford game)

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 22, 2011 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions

oh, you left at halftime? ;)

because that second half was an abomination unto the Lord.

I am the victim of a basketball jones.

by Queenie on Sep 22, 2011 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions

2nd half against Tech?

I think an argument could be made that, relatively speaking, TTech was creating the greater abomination. ;) It wasn’t a petty game, but in my world beating your seeding on an unfamiliar court literally on the other side of the country against a team with a long postseason history which has coaches with deep tournament experience = not sucking.

Now, if you say only tournament winners don’t suck, then they’ve got a ways to go. ;)

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 22, 2011 11:20 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions