The WNBA Approval Poll: September 2011

by James Bowman on Sep 19, 2011 11:00 AM EDT in WNBA

"Thunder is good, thunder is impressive; but it is lightning that does the work." - Mark Twain

If there's any thunder among women's basketball fandom, it's in their statements regarding the performance of the WNBA.

For the most part, it's generally negative. Generally, the fans have a lot to complain about during any given period of time - the receipt of timely information from the league office, the accuracy of information posted on the website, and the folding of franchises have all been known to draw the ire of fans.

But I began to wonder if it were the case that the voice of the naysayers simply drowned out those who had divergent opinions.

Could it be that the WNBA is held in much higher regard than most people give it credit for?

A general rule is that people are more likely to voice a disagreement than an agreement. After all, TV news doesn't report on all the robberies/murders/political chicanery that doesn't happen but puts so much weight on wrongdoing that one might conclude that the streets are clogged with crime and chaos, even in the most rural parts of America. (An excellent book: "The Culture of Fear" by Barry Glassner.)

Therefore, we at Swish Appeal have proposed a non-scientific monthly poll to track the rise and fall of the estimation that women's basketball followers have for the WNBA. If this poll proves successful, we'll repeat it month for month, even during the months when there is no activity in the WNBA. Is the opinion that fans have regarding the WNBA fixed? Or does it vary month by month, even when there is no activity?

We'll ask one simply question every month: Do you approve or disapprove of the way the leadership of the WNBA are handling their jobs? Either answer "approve" or "disapprove". We'll keep the polls open for about a week, and track the results. We're not asking about what metric you use to determine whether you approve the job done by the WNBA or not: only your final evaluation.

However, you might want to vote before reading the comments thread, just to be completely unbiased. At least on your initial vote.

Poll

Do you approve or disapprove of the way the leadership of the WNBA are handling their jobs?

Approve

32 votes

Disapprove

11 votes

43 votes | Poll has closed

Tweet Comment 23 comments | 2 recs |

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Comments

Generally approve

There’s always room for improvement. I’ve harped on a couple of things this year that I’d like to see done better, like treating the sport as a normal pro sport in advertising and not just as something for little kids, and some greater transparency on certain things. Laurel Ritchie has been in the job for a few months now

However, I think it should go without saying that the league has existed for 15 years for a reason, and that’s clearly the result of the jobs league and team management are doing. We’ve seen lots of other sports leagues pop up and then vanish. The WNBA is different. Attendance has generally increased. TV viewership has generally increased. Progress may be slow in some areas, but at the same time we can’t forget that the WNBA is right at the forefront of a real cultural change in the way our society thinks about women’s roles and abilities. The WNBA is so far weathering the storm and continuing to push forward. League management is going to have to tack sometimes to make progress in the long term. I do feel like, overall, the league is moving in the right direction about as fast as can realistically be expected of it. I feel good about Laurel Ritchie so far.

I was a much bigger ABL fan at the time the two leagues sprung up, and while I still feel sad that the ABL model didn’t work, I wholeheartedly enjoy the WNBA now.

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 19, 2011 12:04 PM EDT reply actions

I lost part of a sentence above: "Laurel Ritchie has been in the job for a few months now..."

“…but can’t be expected to fix everything overnight.”

That’s what I get for multitasking. :P

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 19, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions

GAH! Richie, not Ritchie.

I fail at typing.

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 19, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions

We expect Richie to multitask however....

by thewiz06 on Sep 19, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions

I adore the WNBA

Seriously it is the sports league I have the most pleasure following. I love the fans, the players, many of the people involved with running it. And the games, the standard of play, get better and better every year.

And, yes, there is loads of room for improvement. But what Shannon said above.

My main crits—-in addition to what’s been mentioned—-is the paranoia around feminity and sexuality. I feel that there’s a lot of BS about players wearing makeup & dressy girly off court (not to mention the shorts too high stupidity). I would be a lot happier if the league would not shy away from the fact that a reasonable proportion of players and fans are lesbian. And view it as a plus not a minus. The folks who are so homophobic that they won’t watch the league if they learn there are lesbians in it are ALREADY no watching the league.

by JustineL on Sep 19, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

NOT watching the league

Ack. Please let us correct our typos!

by JustineL on Sep 19, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions

I do think the lesbian fanbase is being taken for granted

and I think they need to be acknowledged publicly by the league. I do agree that there are a lot of non-basketball fans and NBA fans who don’t like the WNBA who use lesbians as a reason for not liking the WNBA, but even if the WNBA were made up 100% of Maxim Hot 100 ladies, the league would still be belittled, even if all the Maxim Hot 100 ladies were good basketball players. I however do think that the league should still be all-inclusive, and the average joe may interpret the WNBA having league wide lesbian events as excluding non-lesbian prospective fans.

by thewiz06 on Sep 19, 2011 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions

"...if the WNBA were made up 100% of Maxim Hot 100 ladies, the league would still be belittled, even if all the Maxim Hot 100 ladies were good basketball players."

We’ll see how Lingerie Basketball does to have an authentic test of this theory:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/02/lingerie-basketball-league-debut_n_916213.html

Anyway, I agree: I think the league has to focus on maintaining the fan base they have and sort of leveraging in-roads into those demographics to identify other potential fans. No sense begging people who are willing to publicly profess their disdain for the league to watch.

Appreciate those who fans who love the game now and be patient as their buzz helps the league grow.

Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Sep 19, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

Well the good news about lingerie basketball is that

they are playing basketball, albeit with some modified rules..

If you put them in WNBA uniforms people would still watch just because they’re hot women. However, leagues like this will have some photoshoots as well, rated PG-13 of course.

by thewiz06 on Sep 19, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Even if the WNBA were made up 100 percent of Maxim Hot 100 ladies....

…and they could all shoot the ball like Mikan, Cousy, Russell, Chamberlain, Maravich, Baylor, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, and LeBron the group would still be belittled. Or, as someone said, “You can’t reason someone out of an opinion that they were never reasoned into.”

by James Bowman on Sep 19, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions

Taking Shots At The WNBA Is So Last Year (Month) (Week)

;)

Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Sep 19, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions

It can’t be said enough ! :D

by James Bowman on Sep 19, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions

"I do think the lesbian fanbase is being taken for granted and I think they need to be acknowledged publicly by the league. "

Um…how?

No, really.

How?

I mean, individual teams do recognize us, market to us, and have events.

How often do I really need to have my behind kissed? I mean, if I’m feeling insecure about the WNBA wanting me around as a fan, then I should probably go get therapy, because I don’t feel unwanted as a lesbian fan.

My whole thing with the marketing is not that they aren’t catering to me as a lesbian, it’s that they’re not targeting me as an adult. When your team’s advertisement shows a bunch of little kids with bangers (notice that it’s often JUST the kids—we say “families” but look and see how often it’s just a closeup of random cute kids), that really doesn’t make the league look like my cup of tea. You don’t need to run out the rainbow flag for me specifically—just treat the league as if it’s appropriate for grown-ups, too.

I think the weirdness comes in that the gay fans are frequently acknowledged and accepted, but the gay players are still somehow…not. The Seattle Storm participated in the Trevor Project (“It Gets Better”), yet they don’t have a single player that’s more than just implicitly out. Why not? Again, if that’s the players’ choice, fine…but you have to ask the question, “Why are they making that choice?”

I’ve frequently said that I am a Lynx fan for a variety of reasons. The easy-to-understand ones I often throw out there are that I’m a Stanford season ticketholder and Wiggins played for Stanford (the lynx have had more Stanford players than any other team), and also that I was a Monarchs fan before they folded, and Brunson was a Monarch. But another big reason was the Lynx’s treatment of Michelle VanGorp:

Van Gorp has never hid her orientation and has taken her partner Kyleen to team events both with the Lynx and previously with the Liberty. The Lynx media guide mentions Kyleen as her spouse.

Yep, it was just right there in the media guide. No big deal. Simply a matter of fact.

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 19, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions

I never saw the Mystics really doing any public events for the local lesbian community, but I do know other teams did as you mentioned

I should have clarified and said that the league itself hasn’t done it, though individual teams have done it. I agree with you that either way, no community should have its butt kissed in order to buy a product.

Agree with you that the league hasn’t been marketing the product as one that’s appropriate for adults. I think the Storm has some pretty good commercials to show it as a general product, not just a kiddie one.

I also agree with you that the WNBA, like the other sports leagues has been hesitant to accept gay athletes fully. For the WNBA, there is a perception that most of the players if not all of them are lesbians. That is obviously not true though I think like anywhere else in society, some number of the players are lesbian.

To me, I don’t care if someone or even everyone on the Mystics, Wizards, Redskins, Caps, Orioles, Nationals, United, and any other team I didn’t mention is gay or not. The players to me are players and their amazing abilities are why I watch and why I pay to see them do (in the case for the Wizards and Mystics). All I care about is a team that plays well perennially and is actively in the hunt for a title (Caps) or is at least making clear steps to get there (Wizards, Nats, and even the Skins now.). I get very irritated when teams are not doing well and are clearly meddling (Mystics) or when players do the darndest of things and make the team a punchline, like the Gilbert incident and hopefully no one LeBrons us.

by thewiz06 on Sep 19, 2011 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions

It's not about whether you the punter want to know anyone's sexulaity or not

It’s about an atmosphere that implicitly, if not explicitly, keeps players in the closet.

We live in a homophobic world & one of the many things I adore about going to WNBA games is that they’re kind of an oasis from all that crap. So many out dykes & lesbian families. I freaking love it.

And I fervently wish the league was less paranoid about the number of lesbian players, which would create space for more of them to be out and treated like Michelle VanGorp above. (What Shannon said on all of this.)

My other discomfort witht the league is that they seem to think that conventionally, pretty, feminine players are the ones that should publicise the league & they should be presented in stereotypically feminine ways. I’m fine with that but not if those are the only faces we see. Not everyone in the league is like that and I hate the way the league keeps focussing on it.

Just to go back to my point above. I meet with a lot of teens and they write me many letters. I can’t tell you how many of them thank me for including gay & lesbian characters. So many of them feel alone & isolated and like they’re the only gay/lesbian in the world. The more people who are out the less alone they will feel. I dont have to tell you how high the suicide rate is among teen GLBT. This really is about saving lives.

by JustineL on Sep 20, 2011 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

"My other discomfort with the league is that they seem to think that conventionally, pretty, feminine players are the ones that should publicise the league & they should be presented in stereotypically feminine ways."

Excuse me while I shine my Lynx homer badge again for a second…

This is part of why I love the Lynx’s Catwalk for the Cure event. On the surface, the idea of having the players participate in a fashion show might make you cringe—what’s more hyperstereotypically feminine? And some of the players, like Candice Wiggins and Charde Houston do use it as an opportunity to show off that more stereotypical side.

But when Seimone Agusutus takes the stage, you know this is not your average “let’s doll up the players” event. Even for her more seriously fashionable look, she still gets to be herself.

Maya Moore even took the opportunity to poke a bit of fun at the notion of femininity and basketball players, by mashing up the two and wearing her Jordans with her pink ruffly dress.

Is it so difficult to allow for that league-wide?

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 20, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Catwalk for the Cure

I love those pics and this event!! Oh. And Seimone’s flip flops!

The diversity in the players clothes is just like the diversity in their lives – as the world should be. I don’t know why people have to put others in a nice fancy box – whether it’s a female basketball player, a sorority girl, a mom, a lesbian, a straight single female. Not everyone can be explained by their label, nor should they be. Ever. :)

by Jessica Lantz on Sep 20, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions

"The more people who are out the less alone they will feel."

Seriously. Who was out in the 80’s when I was a teen? Martina. And Martina is great but she wasn’t exactly warm and fuzzy. I respected her as a tennis player, but I didn’t feel connected.

I’ve had the conversation more than once that I respect Lisa Leslie for a lot of things, but I think her whole attitude about the players needing to be “feminine” is ultimately very harmful. That’s fine for Lisa that she fits in that box and feels comfortable there, but it’s not fine for a lot of the rest of us. It would have done me a world of good as a kid to see someone like Seimone—all tatted up and dreadlocked and wearing “guys” clothes—and the comfortable, easy way she handles herself and just know that whether she was gay or straight that there is room within the definition of what it is to be female to contain all of that as well.

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 20, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions

"The Seattle Storm participated in the Trevor Project ("It Gets Better"), yet they don’t have a single player that’s more than just implicitly out."

I STAND CORRECTED!! It’s more than a message board rumor:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/womenshoopsblog/2016289875_mailbag_can_storm_players_docu.html

I’m guessing Storm F Le’coe Willingham and myself are the only people in Seattle gearing up for the Western Conference finals Thursday on ESPN2. You know my reason and Willingham shared that Minnesota G Alexis Hornbuckle is her partner, wedding bells coming, so she’s only still paying attention to the WNBA playoffs to support her.

Big shout out (and congratulations!) to Le’coe & Alexis. :D

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 23, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions

"The folks who are so homophobic that they won’t watch the league if they learn there are lesbians in it are ALREADY not watching the league"

This.

I don’t really need the league to wave rainbow flags for me as a fan, but I’d like to reach a level where players’ orientations are simply treated as a matter of fact, rather than some oddity or something to be ignored. If players, gay or straight, feel like keeping their love lives private, thats absolutely their prerogative. But don’t try to gloss over or hide the players who are very up front about their relationships. They’ve chosen to be out of the closet (or straight active allies)—let them be!

by Shannon Cotterell on Sep 19, 2011 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs

Exactly, unfortunately, the negative stereotype of the WNBA is that

because many fans are gay women, that means most of the players are gay. I would think that the proportion of gay players is likely less than what the average person thinks. That said, I don’t think it’s an accident that some players, most notably the more attractive players (to my eyes at least, coming from the straight man department) are marketed/publicized a lot more than players who aren’t as attractive based on looks. Granted, many of the best WNBA players are also attractive, but some players who don’t have as much “hetero” appeal are just not marketed as much.

On the flip side, don’t tell me there are NO gay NBA players…. I know that Grant Hill had the “don’t say that’s so gay” PSA, but I would think that even now, a player saying he’s gay would emasculate him in front of hist teammates given how macho the NBA star culture is.

by thewiz06 on Sep 19, 2011 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions