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Top 15 WNBA Players Of All Time: Who Were The Top Players Excluded From The List Of 30 Nominees?

Ample help with this list came from James Bowman who did the statistical rankings and Jessica Lantz who conducted the interviews referenced with Tulsa Shock assistant coach Teresa Edwards and guard Sheryl Swoopes below.

Statistics are obviously an imperfect way to determine the Top 15 WNBA players of all time given that the stated criteria include, "contributions to team success and the overall growth of women's basketball."

Nevertheless, statistics can serve as a shorthand for quickly comparing players when trying to whittle the league's entire history down to 30 nominees.

And when looking over the list generated by James Bowman's Hall of Fame probability calculator, the first name that popped up as missing from the WNBA's list was Houston Comets guard Janeth Arcain.

Star-divide

Arcain earned four rings as a significant contributor to Comets' early dominance when their name was almost synonymous with "WNBA champions". So Arcain rated highly for at least one rather simple reason that James outlined clearly: players get extra weight in the metric for championship rings, even if they were just the water-carriers on championship teams.

But it's not as if counting rings is some esoteric criteria that James just conjured up arbitrarily - Arcain was one of the handful of players 2011 Basketball Hall of Fame inductee Teresa Edwards named when asked about how much weight championships should have in determining the list of Top 15 players, after adamantly stating that she didn't deserve to make the list of course.

"You think about the Houston teams, you had Tina (Thompson), (Sheryl) Swoopes, (Cynthia) Cooper, you had a host of players," said Edwards, who is now an assistant coach with the Tulsa Shock. "You even had Janeth Arcane, but I mean how many of them do you put on the list, is what the question is. And who really was the one to make it happen? That's what it really boils down to but you can't dismiss a championship."

But there's at least one other member of the Shock who might be able to answer Edwards' query.

"I think one of the best compliments that a player could get is when your teammates say to you without you, there's no way we win a ring," said Shock wing Sheryl Swoopes, a teammate of Arcain's with the Comets for the entirety of her career. "Maybe you're not in the newspaper every day or you're not the leading scorer, but as teammates we knew what she brought and I wouldn't trade her - I wouldn't trade her for any player in this league because she was just that type of a professional. She didn't get caught up in all the individual stuff and things like that, she just wanted to win."

Playing in the shadow of one of the best trio of players in basketball history, Arcain didn't put up the the same type of numbers as some of the other 30 nominees on the WNBA's list. But in 2001 she seized the opportunity to put up numbers that demonstrated her talent.

Taking on a bigger role offensively in the absence of Cooper after winning the WNBA's first four championships, Arcain increased her scoring average by 10 points, and won both WNBA Most Improved Player and First-Team All-WNBA Honors at age 32. Although that's probably the most notable year on her WNBA resume, Swoopes still thinks her value goes beyond the numbers.

"I always thought that Janeth Arcain was underrated," said Swoopes, who was Arcain's opponents in the 1996 and 2000 Olympics. "And I think that's because she played with me and Coop and Tina so when everybody talked about our team, they talked about the Big 3 and that was Coop, Swoopes and Thompson. But the good thing about her is that she never allowed that to mess with her mind or she never allowed that to say you know what they don't care about me anyway, they don't think I can play. I think she used that as motivation."

Beyond what Arcain did on court for the Comets, she also meant something to her native Brazil.

In representing her country in national competition, Arcain gained national prominence with some considering her a "God-like figure" and fellow Brazilians like Atlanta Dream guard Iziane Castro-Marques seeing her as something of a role model.

Iziane Castro Marques has Atlanta Dream within one win of WNBA finals - ESPN
"They were all a great influence for me. I watched them win the championship in 1994," Castro Marques said. "Hortensia is my idol, she's a goddess. Now she's on the national team [as director], and I'm going back to it because of her. I can talk to her about things, and it's a big comfort."

It's hard, then, to deny that Arcain meant something both to her team's success and likely awareness of women's basketball worldwide as such an icon. 

Arcain might not be widely considered Top 15 material. But in terms of honoring the best the WNBA has to offer, how might we know whether she at least deserved a nomination?

We'll use two things to identify players excluded from the list who might have deserved consisderation:

  • The Hall of Fame probability calculator numbers, subtracting ABL statistics as described previously.
  • James' team-by-team "Ring of Honor" list, posted last night - being among your franchise's top players would certainly seem to qualify you inclusion among a list of nominees for what amounts to the league's 15-player Ring of Honor.
  • Any individual distinctions or records a player holds that has earned them a place in history (not things included in the Hall of Fame probability calculator).

Obviously, there are numerous players that have intangible qualities like Arcain that might qualify them for inclusion on this list, but this is a good start.

For now, let's put off the question of who any of these players should replace on the actual list of 30 nominees and just sit with this list of candidates - while you might not think they're top 15 material, should any have been included in the top 30?

The following are few arguments for some of those with the strongest arguments.

Nominees from Top 30 in the Hall of Fame probability calculator and a "Ring of Fame"

Andrea Stinson, 1997-2005
Bio
Stats
Ring of Honor: Charlotte Sting
Fun facts: Current high school basketball coach and security guard

Stinson was named Second-Team All-WNBA in 1997 and 1998 and her career Player Efficiency Rating (PER, which James describes here) ranks 17th all time. The Hall of Fame probability calculator put her just ahead of Katie Smith (based on WNBA stats alone) and James had her ranked second on the Sting's Ring of Fame.

For as good as she was, there has to be something said for the fact that she was a founding player as well.

Lindsay Whalen, Guard, 2004-present
Bio
Stats

Ring of Honor: Connecticut Sun
Fun facts: Holds numerous records at the University of Minnesota, where her jersey was retired in 2005

Whalen was in the top 30 among by Hall of Fame probability ratings with ABL statistics included and moved into the top 20 using WNBA stats alone. Although she doesn't have a ring, she led the Connecticut Sun to the WNBA Finals in 2004 and 2005. In 2008, she was a strong MVP candidate and finished second to Candace Parker while also earning First-Team All-WNBA honors.

Statistically, she ranks 20th in PER, 17th in true shooting percentage, and fifth in assists per game all-time. And it's those assists that she has picked up as a point guard that actually strengthens her argument - point guards bring more to the floor than we can quantify or most people can even see. Put it this way: you don't realize how vital the task of just being able to bring the ball upcourt and initiate the offense until you watch a team try to play without a player capable of doing so. Whalen does the job of running a team as well as anyone and although she doesn't have the rings that some of the top point guards have, it's actually harder to make a basketball argument to leave her off this list than it is to put her on it.

Sophia Young, Forward, 2006-present
Bio
Stats
Ring of Honor: San Antonio Silver Stars
Fun facts: NCAA champion with Baylor in 2005

If the Top 15 were determined by PER alone, Young would be a shoe-in: she's 13th all-time and 11th in points per game. She was also named Second Team All-WNBA twice and First Team All-WNBA and All-Defensive team when the Silver Stars made the Finals in 2008 and Young also had a strong argument for MVP honors.

Like Whalen, based purely on basketball performance, Young is tough to leave off a list of 30 nominees for the WNBA's best. She's among the most athletic players to play in the league and could be considered for any list of top defenders.

 

Top 30 nominees from the Hall of Fame probability calculator only

Janeth Arcain, Guard, 1997-2003, 2005
Bio
Stats
Fun facts: Did not miss a game for her first seven seasons in Houston

For all that talk about Arcain with the Comets, she didn't make the cut for the Comets' Ring of Fame - her career PER is beneath that of Michelle Snow. And aside from having a top 10 career free throw percentage, she doesn't rank highly statistically otherwise.

Like Stinson above, there has to be something said for being a founding player as well.

 

Nominees from "Ring of Honor" distinctions

Margo Dydek, 1998-2008

Bio
Stats

Ring of Honor: Utah Starzz
The Intangibles: Thoughts on Margo...and Brian...and Sue...and Marek...

James previously broke down the late Margo Dydek's basketball contributions, with the obvious one being her shot blocking prowess - her 9% block percentage remains #1 in WNBA history with Leslie being a relatively distant second.

While Dydek's impact off the court that many would probably consider her biggest impact on the league, she also represents the question of whether all time statistical leaders should get extra consideration just for being outstanding specialists.

Jennifer Gillom, 1997-2003
Bio
Stats
Ring of Honor: Phoenix Mercury
Fun facts: Current coach of the LA Sparks, Olympic gold medalist in 1988

If the Hall of Fame probability calculator included All-WNBA selections, Gillom's Second Team selection in 1997 and First Team selection in 1998 would bump her up a bit in the rankings.

A few others:

Jennifer Azzi, 1999-2003
Bio
Stats
Fun facts: Head coach at the University of San Francisco, earned Olympic gold in 1996, won the NCAA national championship with Stanford in 1990 en route to the Wade Trophy and Lieberman Award

Azzi is not just on this list to reiterate that point guards are underrated - she still owns the league's best-ever three point percentage in addition to being ranked top 10 in assists per game. If we were to do a top 30 including ABL stats, Azzi would be on the list. Without ABL stats, her strongest argument to make a top 30 would be as a specialist.

Adrienne Goodson, Forward, 1999-2005
Bio
Stats
Fun facts: The best six foot and under rebounder?

Goodson's claim to fame is offensive rebounding, as she's still 15 all-time in offensive rebounding percentage. But like Azzi, her argument would be stronger with ABL statistics.

Related links:

Top 15 WNBA Players Of All Time: The Hall Of Fame Probability Calculator List

A "Ring of Honor" for every WNBA franchise!

WNBA Hall of Fame Probability: The "Perfect Ten"

TOP 15 WNBA PLAYERS OF ALL TIME VOTING | WNBA.com

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Stumped in the 2nd

May 2010 from Canis Hoopus - 2 comments

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So Young

Sophia Young is the only player to be named All WNBA more than twice who did not make the list of 30.

by pilight on Jul 8, 2011 11:27 AM EDT reply actions  

I still say without...

Vickie Johnson the list is incomplete.

VJ and Stinson were the two biggest omissions in my opinion.

by DishNSwish on Jul 8, 2011 11:33 AM EDT reply actions  

A snub from the list of snubs

What she brings to the court definitely goes beyond any form of statistics and defensively she was outstanding.

And I don’t think anyone would complain about adding someone else from those early Liberty teams.

SwishAppeal.com for women's basketball...SB Nation Seattle for Seattle sports...and trying to maintain a Golden State of Mind about the Warriors. Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Jul 8, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't realize Whalen was all-WNBA

Surprising since she has never made the all-star team. She did get picked to play against th Olympic team in 2004.

by ttdomi on Jul 8, 2011 12:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Whalen

Whalen was an All Star in 2006. The W counts the appearances in the USA vs WNBA games as All Star appearances, which would make her a three time All Star. The only player who has been All WNBA more recently than 1998 without bring an All Star is Candace Parker.

Every player who has been an All Star five or more times made the list of 30. There are four players who are four-time All Stars who did not make the list: Alana Beard, Candice Dupree, Tari Phillips, and Sophia Young

by pilight on Jul 8, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

2004, 2006 and?

I don’t see her listed on either of the 2010 “Stars at the Sun” rosters, although her bio does say she won a gold medal with the National Team.

She earned a unique distinction if she was on the national team that year as she was too good to play for the 11 woman WNBA all-stars roster and too bad to play for the 11 woman National Team roster.

by ttdomi on Jul 8, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, I was looking at the

announced rosters

http://www.wnba.com/news/langhorne_heads_reserves_100706.html

Apparently Currie, Jackson and Lyttle couldn’t play.

So how was Whalen good enough to be on the National Team but only gets on the WNBA all-stars-against-the-National-Team squad after players are injured? For that matter, how is she good enough to be on the 2010 National Team but not good enough to make the 2009 WNBA all-star game?

by ttdomi on Jul 8, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm going to go out on a limb

Of the players playing now, Whalen might have the biggest mismatch between talent and accolades/recognition.

She has been a top 2 or 3 pg in the league for every year for most of her career…and has been one of the few pg MVP candidates…

I really just think that the way she plays the game doesn’t stand out to most people (she’s not a big scorer or flashy player) and it has cost her some of these awards…

SwishAppeal.com for women's basketball...SB Nation Seattle for Seattle sports...and trying to maintain a Golden State of Mind about the Warriors. Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Jul 8, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm definitely partial to Whalen, but Young's omission is weird to me

There are other players without titles on the list who Young has clearly had a better career than.

Neither Young nor Whalen are particularly “popular”, I suppose, and I think even now both of their talents are somewhat underappreciated….

But oh well – the players on the list are certainly deserving.

SwishAppeal.com for women's basketball...SB Nation Seattle for Seattle sports...and trying to maintain a Golden State of Mind about the Warriors. Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Jul 8, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

weird

The inclusion of Augustus over Young is inexplicable. Young has been All WNBA more times, an All Star more times, has more MVP shares, and has even scored more career points. And that’s not even getting into Augustus never making the playoffs while Young has gone to the finals and made several clutch plays to get her team there.

by pilight on Jul 8, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Augustus is still basking in

first pick in the draft glory. Her reputation in college also seemed to exceed her results.

by ttdomi on Jul 8, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see two reasons to keep Augustus out:

(1) She missed 40 games through her first five seasons; and
(2) she’s never been to the playoffs.

But her selection is still justifiable — she’s third on the WNBA’s career points per game list.

by RP_45 on Jul 8, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I'd add a third reason, or even reason 2.5 because it's kind of in that same vein:

Katie Smith took Lynx teams with much less talent than Augustus ever had to the playoffs. As much as I like Seimone, I couldn’t include her for that reason alone.

by Amy22 on Jul 9, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

One thing that I think counts against Young (in terms of recognition and reputation) is that she’s a power forward who doesn’t rebound. People expect their elite 4s to grab lots of boards. Augustus doesn’t get any similar discredit because she’s a scoring wing, and all people expect her to do is score. Whenever she’s been healthy and on the court, she’s done that.

I’m not saying it’s fair, but I think that’s part of it. Young’s got career averages of 16 and 6; something like 12 and 10 would likely have her regarded more highly by the general WNBA-viewing populous.

On an entirely separate note, we’ve had at least ten names proposed between the article and comments here for people who should be added to the 30 – so who are you taking off? When I was doing my piece picking 15, Ruthie Bolton jumped out at me as someone who didn’t need to be there, and I think Tangela Smith is there more for longevity than performance, but it’s not like you can just cross 10 off with ease.

Whalen and Dydek were the ones that jumped out at me as missing from the 30, for what that’s worth.

by Richyyy on Jul 8, 2011 7:38 PM EDT reply actions  

12 and 10?

Are there WNBA players that have averaged a double double for their career?

by ttdomi on Jul 8, 2011 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

No...

…although Cheryl Ford is very, very close. I threw those numbers out because they were the first that came to mind with significantly improved rebounding that still added up to 22. 14 and 8 would probably work just as well to get her more generally recognised as a WNBA superstar-level player.

Or if San Antonio acquired some beef to do the rebounding, bit the bullet and simply started her as a three instead of a four. Then rebounding is a lot less of an issue.

by Richyyy on Jul 8, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think some of those who could be taken off have been mentioned here

Whalen was the one who initially stood out to me as missing. Given others on the list, Young and Stinson stand out. Dydek as well, for the reasons mentioned above.

Augustus is one I think can be removed with no disrespect, for the reasons RP_45 mentioned – in a few more years, I think it could be a different story.
Shannon Johnson did not rate highly statistically.
Bolton is another one who could come off.

After that, I have to take a closer look and it’s probably worthy of a second post.

SwishAppeal.com for women's basketball...SB Nation Seattle for Seattle sports...and trying to maintain a Golden State of Mind about the Warriors. Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Jul 8, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Janeth! <3

Agreeing with David’s contention above that the list is incomplete without VJ (but I am totally biased in this regard, and I DON’T CARE).

We’re probably going to need a Brazilian up in here to explain the national and international impact Arcain had, because quotes might not be enough.

Fun fact: Arcain and VJ were picked back-to-back in the Elite Draft. I sometimes wonder what might have been if we’d had Janeth and Houston had had VJ.

I am the victim of a basketball jones.

by Queenie on Jul 9, 2011 9:35 AM EDT reply actions  

Agree on Arcain's impact...

…particularly with regard to what that impact was like as specifically related to the WNBA…

That’s a fun hypothetical on VJ/Arcain and NY/Houston…is it fair to say Houston ended up needing a guard less in the rotation given their personnel?

(This is why I want NBA TV to start showing classic WNBA games too!)

SwishAppeal.com for women's basketball...SB Nation Seattle for Seattle sports...and trying to maintain a Golden State of Mind about the Warriors. Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Jul 9, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did coaches around the league have significant input on the list?

I was pleasantly surprised to see Shannon Johnson in there because I like her (and because I have the Columbus/ABL bias), but there were easily players you could replace her with on the list. And then I realized that she played for Thibault, Agler, and Dan Hughes, all of whom probably really appreciate what she did for their teams and would make convincing arguments for her inclusion.

by Amy22 on Jul 9, 2011 11:39 AM EDT reply actions  

That's a good question

The initial release said, “media members and basketball experts.”

I think I recall Ben York tweeting that he was involved, but I’m not sure.

In any event, I agree – she’s one that didn’t entirely make sense to me given the omissions and who else was on it.

SwishAppeal.com for women's basketball...SB Nation Seattle for Seattle sports...and trying to maintain a Golden State of Mind about the Warriors. Twitter: @NateP_SBN.

by Nate Parham on Jul 9, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

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